The Ariel Discussion Thread

[Aquisha]

I was up for far too long pondering the whole "fishing" problem with Eric's kingdom. I agree with Jess, that Triton would definitely give favorable conditions in lieu of not fishing. Then, on top of that, there's always trade. Maybe the kingdom just switched gears and used their location at sea to become more trade oriented, building up their merchant class. Perhaps the kingdom could have gotten some Atlantican tips on the best way to navigate currents and get products to ports faster? Or, going way out on a limb, maybe they even started to export some Atlantican products (those that weren't too overtly alien from human objects, like more like art)? Clearly, I miss my history classes at school, but those are just some thoughts. And then again, maybe Triton could use fishing as some cruel capital punishment for some of Atlantica's worst marine offenders!

I think Eric would definitely give up sea food, but I think he'd keep everything else but sparingly out of respect for Ariel. I definitely think Ariel's a vegetarian. And I think that Eric used the whole "Even sea creatures eat other sea creatures" argument to keep chicken on his table!

And really, with Max and Ariel, I think clearly from the beginning, Max loved her. I don't think they really needed to work on the relationship. If anything, I think Max would start hanging out with Ariel almost more than Eric, which I think would be really funny!

[Zavi]

And then again, maybe Triton could use fishing as some cruel capital punishment for some of Atlantica's worst marine offenders!

Does the fact that I literally LOL'ed at that statement make me a psychopath? XP

Oh no, I don't think Ariel and Max would need any bonding to have a good relationship. They'd hang out anyway, but I want to know where they went/what they did together. With Ariel's sense of adventure and Max's nose, they could get into a whole word of trouble. But of course Ariel would have a blast and Eric would have a heart attack.

[DanTheMan]

Sept 17, 2009 14:20:33 GMT -5 Zavi said:

Does the fact that I literally LOL'ed at that statement make me a psychopath? XP

Oh no, I don't think Ariel and Max would need any bonding to have a good relationship. They'd hang out anyway, but I want to know where they went/what they did together. With Ariel's sense of adventure and Max's nose, they could get into a whole word of trouble. But of course Ariel would have a blast and Eric would have a heart attack.

No it doesn't, because there's only one psycho on this board, and that's yours' truly lol..

Anyway, that actually sounds interesting. Some great ideas could be conjured up for what Ariel and Max could get intos. Of course, Eric having a heart attack is a plus for me anyway lol.., but it would be neat to see what they could get into.

[faya27]

Apr 25, 2009 14:37:22 GMT -5 Coral said:

That's very true. Even with those limitations she was the most fleshed out female character to date. Only Belle and Jasmine rival her in that regard. But if Ariel hadn't been such a huge success, Belle and Jasmine never would have happened.

There is most definitely enough of Ariel in the movie that fans and writers can run with her and turn her into a real 3-D character without sacrificing any of the things that made us love her so much to begin with.

Yes, and if Eric hadn't been a huge success, then Beast and Aladdin would have never happened.

[Zavi]

So I'm totally driving this thread off track, but I had a thought the other day. Proof that I over-analyze this movie to death. XD

Where does faith play in Ariel's life, both as a mermaid and as a human? Surely no mermaid has ever heard of a Roman Catholic, and we don't really know how religiously diverse sea-creatures are. What about the foam-on-the-water-no-immortal-soul bit? Just because merpeople have a common faith doesn't mean Ariel would believe it herself.

And then what would happen as a human? I sometimes wonder how she'd adapt to a human faith, considering she's royalty and therefore tied to the church. I do like the idea of Eric having to teach Ariel about his faith, although I don't see him as devout as, say, Grimsby.

Thoughts?

[Coral]

Interesting angle. I think the original fairy tale certainly acknowledged this dilemma. The merpeople know they don't have souls and that the only way they can get one is for a human to fall in love with them. Or be taken in by the children of the air, that nobody knows even exists until you become one.

[Zavi]

And then that creates a whole new dynamic. She may not have been looking for an immortal soul or even thinking about it at the time, but when does she come to the realization that she has one my marrying Eric?

[fridamoonbeam]

OOh, I like this topic! Well, then I can deffinately see Triton's POV even more if that was the case. I mean, without a soul, you don't have that sense of comfort to "meet them on the other side" which is really sad.

I'd be really interested in how this would exicute actually.

It reminds me a little of Beasty's curse. I personally thought the rose was just how much time he had, like if he had love before the last one fell he'd be free of it. I mean it was obvious Belle loved him even before the last petal fell.

So basically, what would be the confirming factor for gaining love and a soul

[Zavi]

Oh, you're right! Not to mention Ariel's sisters will each outlive her by, well, lots. -sniffle- Now this is making me sad.

Is it weird that I find the idea of Eric reading Ariel Bible passages really, really sweet? *warm fuzzies* I think she'd be curious about all those stories and in my mind at least one of Eric's parents was true to their faith. I dunno if he'd break out Genesis out of his own volition but if Ariel asked (three guesses if she would) I think he'd enjoy showing it to her. Though it's kind of scary in a way, knowing that you'll REALLY never see your family again...

Okay, I'm driving this thread off track again but I meant to link this a while ago and never did.

This: eternal-s.deviantart.com/art/Ariel-135267379

I love it soooooo much. I don't usually favor this style but...but...look at the pretties...

[fridamoonbeam]

No, I think it's a really cute idea too I do think Eric would appreciate and really like Jesus' teachings, but some of the church leaders... not so much But he'd behave himself. After all, Jesus biggest thing were the politicians and religious leaders who tried to exploit the old ways of religion to control people, while Jesus himself was best friends with who was considered socially "unclean" and loved people as a whole LOL, I'm going into another topic xD

But yes, I'd love to read on this subject.

Gah, that makes me sad too thinking Ariel's fam

[Zavi]

I imagine it'd be a nice way to pass the time while out at sea for a long journey, or while sitting by a fireplace on a cold day. Or just something to mull over while lounging on the covers pre-bedtime. *plot bunny stampede*

I'd like to think of faith as one of the "big steps" into Ariel's emerging humanity. I mean, there's dinglehoppers and stairs and random human customs (really, just *what* is it with humans and being dry all the time? I just don't see the point in this towel, Eric...), but these teachings are so radically different from everything she's ever known, and at the same time, there are beliefs she's held to all along. Who better to preach forgiveness than the mermaid who loves everybody?

But still, these teachings just seem like one giant leap towards humanity and one heck of a swim away from her former life as a mermaid. Not necessarily bad thing (in fact a very *good* thing for Ariel), but a big change nonetheless. It's not like she'll ever abandon human faith once she finds it--it's not exactly something you can let go of, even when you transform back into a mermaid. It kind of completes the transformation, am I right? It pulls everything together--she marries a prince, and his soul becomes hers (That makes it sound really bad, but I hope y'all get my meaning. XD), and now she'll be with God instead of, well, foam on the water. There's no going back from that, and that was something she DIDN'T have when she was transformed by Ursula or even Triton, in the beginning.

[Coral]

I think it's a very interesting topic. Faith elements are certainly one thing that Disney overlooks, probably on purpose. The original story was not written in a world that was void of religion, so it's not fair to the characters (IMO) to ignore religion and faith.

Since I'm a Christian myself, I tend to view all characters through that lens. And it definitely colors them when I'm writing!

[Zavi]

Faith elements tend to leak into my writing all the time. Even if I don't intend to put them there, they always seem to find me anyway. Every. Single. Time. But I never mind, of course. ^^

I definitely agree that faith is one of those topics that, even though it wasn't present in the film, it'd be a wonderful thing to discuss and read about (well, I brought this topic up, didn't I?)! I feel like one of the reasons people might be apprehensive to have Eric marry Ariel would be her uncommon faith. She hasn't been baptized, nor read the Bible, nor ever prayed, or anything that a royal of that time would be associated with! Not to mention that she's technically not human--say what you want, but while she has legs she still was a mermaid--and there are all sorts of un-Christian implications to go with a marriage like that. Adjusting to it on a personal level would probably be a lot smoother than doing so on a societal level.

Please shut me up. Oh dear, I analyze these things far too much. -runs away-

[WickedElphie]

That's really interesting actually. I'm Catholic myself (well really really lapsed, but still) and that factors into my interpretation as well. I view Eric as Catholic and in my head he believes and he goes to Church, but wouldn't obsess over religion, and would have stances on certain issues that might be at odds with the Church, though he'd keep that quiet. And in that scenario Ariel would pretty much HAVE to convert for political reasons.

I'm of the opinion that Disney merpeople have souls and age at a similar rate to humans, but I wouldn't object if someone wanted to say different in a fic.

As far as whether merpeople have religion...I think if they did, given what we know, it be branched off of the human Greek/Roman pantheon (specifically oceanic deities and personages) with a bit of Ancient Egyptian-esque "the King is/is related to/is chosen by a deity" thrown in.

[Coral]

That makes sense.

[Zavi]

Random quick thought: Have you guys ever noticed that Ariel never *completely* cries in this movie? Either she's sobbing voicelessly or crying as a mermaid, therefore with no tears falling down her face. I find that really interesting considering the volume of crying scenes Ariel gets.

[Coral]

You're right! In the fairy tale mermaids don't have tears.

[fridamoonbeam]

Well, she does have tears that fall into the harbor when she thinks Eric is marrying Nessa

[Zavi]

But since she doesn't have a voice you can't really hear her *cry*. It's more like air-sobbing, if you want to call it that. XP


5:30-ish in. D:

[WickedElphie]

True. Which IMO makes that scene all the more heartbreaking. Although in the film itself IIRC she only cries four times. After the grotto is destroyed, when she sees Eric with Vanessa, and at the pier, plus the happy/sad tears at the wedding.