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Post by Zavi on Sept 8, 2009 14:55:35 GMT -5
Oooh, yes, you're right! That never screamed out to me but it makes a lot of sense. Now that I think about it, Eric could learn some valuable things from the kingdom right under his nose. I would think mer-culture as a whole has a lot more faith, what with magic tridents and sea-witchery!
I'd also like to know what patterns they follow in the ocean--what holidays they have and if they go with the tides, migrations, and all that oceanic jazz. Then there's the different oceans and their climates, and I've always wondered if different types of merpeople lived there. River mermaids kind of defeats the mer-part, but it'd be cool if there were trout tails or something of the like. The possibilities are endless, and I'll likely talk miles about this in the future.
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Post by Coral on Sept 9, 2009 11:45:46 GMT -5
I've wondered about holidays too. Particularly Christmas. In my mind, Christmas doesn't exist in Atlantica. Ariel's first Christmas would be very interesting!
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Post by fathomsbelow on Sept 9, 2009 17:07:57 GMT -5
I do wonder about that too, Mare! There are so many differences between the two. One of the biggest differences to me is the cultural freedom in Atlantica as opposed to what's going on up on land. Societal restrictions aren't as apparent in Atlantica and Triton seems a lot more accessible than the average human monarch. Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest differences. Ariel's first Christmas sounds really awesome! I can totally picture Eric taking her outside to see the snow and she asks him what it is..and now I'm getting an idea for a one-shot. Here's a really cute picture I found on deviantART lady-dulcinea.deviantart.com/art/Eric-and-Ariel-Whats-This-1-121373295 |
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Post by Coral on Sept 10, 2009 11:15:47 GMT -5
I do like that picture.
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Post by Zavi on Sept 10, 2009 14:41:02 GMT -5
Ehehehe, I love any mer-picture with snow in it! Ariel looks so adorable in fluffy cloaks. Well, she looks adorable in anything, but she breaks the cute-o-meter when she's decked out in winter clothes. agivega.deviantart.com/art/Ariel-s-Christmas-update-25972135More Christmas Ariel! There's just so many things that Ariel could discover about winter on land! Snowball fights, snowmen, ice skating, hot chocolate, snuggling with Eric by a fireplace, why it's a bad idea to lick icicles...and that doesn't even cover Christmas! |
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Post by Coral on Sept 11, 2009 11:58:13 GMT -5
I love that one!!
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Post by Zavi on Sept 12, 2009 20:16:58 GMT -5
I just read this whole topic over again and I fell in love with all of y'all for the second time! I'm simply addicted to these character discussions and I WILL say that a million times more. (:
I totally agree (well, obviously. I linked to it!). I can totally imagine her and Eric decorating a Christmas tree together. Aww. And then after winter, there's spring, blooming flowers...then summer...and fall! I dunno if they're in an environment with colorful autumns, but I want to see the look on Ariel's face when she sees the leaves change. There I am, getting carried away again! But there must be a million more things she'd be uber-excited about. Climbing trees, land animals, human weddings (she'll be in one, after all)...
There I go again. XD But seriously, do any of y'all wonder what she'd be most excited about, and different scenarios of Ariel learning about human things? I love thinking about that stuff, and what can go spectacularly wrong in the process. Snowball fights and really spicy human food come to mind.
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Post by Coral on Sept 13, 2009 11:56:13 GMT -5
I love thinking about it, but I'm terrible at trying to write any of it.
Has anyone besides me ever given any thought to what Eric might tell people outside the palace when Ariel refuses to eat seafood? I get the impression a big part of the economy of Eric's kingdom is built on fishing.
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Post by Zavi on Sept 13, 2009 13:22:41 GMT -5
YES!!! Most definitely. Though I find it a very difficult thing to get across in fanfiction--you either have to present a situation very differently from the classic "Eric banned fishing from the kingdom" or gloss over the issue. Methinks most people assume that Eric does something about it,and if it's not important to the storyline I think it works to keep things out. But really, what would happen?
I mean, how can a seaside kingdom not benefit from that industry? Either Eric's economy would be damaged for a substantial period of time (angering the fishermen who lost their jobs, but over the long-term things would recover), Eric would respectfully keep seafood out of the palace, or the kingdom would be awakened to the dangers of overfishing. Anthromorphic fishies make things so darn complicated.
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Post by fathomsbelow on Sept 13, 2009 13:30:15 GMT -5
I always got the feeling that they just kept seafood out of the palace ( poor Louis XD ). I mean, fishing might be a huge part of the economy of his kingdom, and some people's only source of income. I'm sure they might have cut back on fishing, but I doubt it was completely outlawed. I think that Ariel would eventually understand that that was how many of Eric's people made their living, and wouldn't survive without it.
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Post by Zavi on Sept 13, 2009 13:41:52 GMT -5
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CarnivoreConfusion <--There's a Little Mermaid entry for this trope which covers what we're generally saying. ...but how does King Triton feel about this? What if Flounder got caught in a net or something? This just makes my head spin.
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Post by Coral on Sept 13, 2009 15:27:57 GMT -5
I would imagine this very subject would the cause of a lot of trouble and probably some arguments. Possibly Ariel and Eric's first argument as a married couple. I think there would have to be some diplomatic negotiations between Eric and Triton.
In my mind, Eric explains Ariel's refusal to eat seafood (when they're in other places) by saying she had a bad reaction to it once and refuses to repeat that experience. And that he abstains himself so she doesn't feel so alone. But on the other hand I can also see Eric still enjoying crab and shrimp when he's off somewhere by himself.
And it's never really established whether or not Eric can hear Sebastien and Scuttle and Flounder on land. Does it only work under the sea?
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Post by Zavi on Sept 14, 2009 16:51:25 GMT -5
Really? I never thought if it that way. I always assumed he lost a taste for fish after discovering Ariel's mermaid-ity.
I think that's a really cool idea, though. It leaves a lot of room for tension and gives Ariel something potentially negative that she has to adapt to. The human world isn't all sunshine and pretty land-ponies, after all!
I wondered once: do Atlanticans or any other merfolk eat shark? Like, the non-Sharkanian ones? Glut sure didn't talk and I wouldn't feel too guilty to see him on Eric's plate.
I got some little implications in TLM2 that Eric could understand Sebastian. He comes up to both of them when he yells "Melody's gone Melody's gone Melody's gone!" and Eric looks at him like he's speaking English. He doesn't ask Ariel what he's saying or even look to her to explain the situation, but that could be attributed to Eric being a...well...Er-head as per his role in TLM2.
To paraphrase David Clement-Davies' "Fire Bringer", all species of the sea have an inherent ability to communicate with each other. The land creatures aren't as connected--bears talk to bears, mice to mice, etc. Only the protagonist, a deer, has the power to communicate cross-species. It's only because he listens!
The same thing happened to Eric, I think. He learned to listen, although maybe not intentionally. Melody obviously talks to sea-creatures, though that could be her mamma's genes. But for her to be a reproductively sound human, she'd have to change them to human genes! -should not bother trying to apply science to a magical Disney movie- :P
What kind of agreements would Eric and Triton come to, I wonder? I feel like that'd cause a lot of problems between the two kingdoms since the fish are sentient beings, at least to the Atlanticans. There's always the Dinotopian/Felix Salten/David Clement-Davies way of life in which the animals accept predator and prey, but the whole situation just seems confusing.
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Post by Coral on Sept 15, 2009 12:39:21 GMT -5
As long as Eric hasn't visited Atlantica, I don't think he'd fully realize how much that could hurt Ariel. After he visits Atlantica for the first time, then things could drastically change. It's all abstract to him until he does that and sees it with his own eyes. At least in my mind.
I've wondered that about sharks too. And what exactly is a hush-guppy?
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Post by WickedElphie on Sept 15, 2009 13:44:07 GMT -5
I'm alaways been of the opinion that Eric would go vegetarian pretty quickly. While emotionally he might not understand as much why it would be such a huge deal I think he'd certainly want to do as much as possible to reinforce that humans aren't mindless barbarians, to Triton in particular.
Also IMO from "Kiss The Girl," the TLM series episode "Island of Fear", and parts of TLM2, I think humans can understand sea creatures if they are aware they can talk, or are open to listening, but otherwise it all goes over their head. Remember in "KTG" Eric didn't conciosuly notoce the serenade, but some part of his brain was raecting to it, esepecially to Sebastian's name hint.
So I think once Eric had struck up a conversation, with, say Sebastian or Flounder, he wouldn't have been able to go back to eating shimp scampi and baked cod willy nilly. And as for land animals, I think he'd realize that'd probably upset Ariel too. "You're eating that cute little piggy we saw on the farm last week?"
Just my opinion.
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Post by Zavi on Sept 15, 2009 14:06:26 GMT -5
I've always thought that Ariel was completely vegetarian while Eric swore off fish and poultry. The idea of Ariel eating a steak just unnerves me, but if the TLM whales ate krill it's kind of like humans eating chicken. -shrug-
As for the rest of the kingdom, I don't think things would change much. The fact that the prince married a mermaid would already make the kingdom *very* volatile, methinks. It's got much bigger problems than a rift in the fishing industry.
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Post by WickedElphie on Sept 15, 2009 17:01:04 GMT -5
True. Although I think I've thought of a way to deal with the losss of fishing. If the ships in the Kingdom that gave up fish then were given some sort of "blessing" by King Triton where they'd tend to almost always get favorable winds, avoid storms etc, the correspoinding boom in the shipping industry might make up for it. Maybe. That's what I choose to go with anyway.
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Post by Coral on Sept 15, 2009 18:56:54 GMT -5
That's a good thought! Seems very plausible to me.
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Post by Zavi on Sept 16, 2009 16:11:23 GMT -5
Agreed! I never would have thought of that. I feel like somebody's gonna get pissed off no matter what decision the kingdom comes to, but that kind of a compromise seems to work out for everyone in the end.
Oh gawd, ever have a lightbulb moment--hey! let's talk about this!--and then forgotten it? It probably doesn't help that I need a nap. Wait for it...
Oh! Something like this.You know, it wasn't ever really said what happened when word got out that the prince's new fianceé was a mermaid. When do you think they got around to saying so? This must have had at least some effect on the townspeople, even if it was just confusion/disbelief.
If you haven't noticed, I *really* like asking questions. Here's another one I've been pondering:
Have any of y'all noticed the lack of fanfic coverage on how Max and Ariel bond? I've always wondered what type of friendship they'd form and how the pup would mingle in the new family. It's intriguing to think of how they'd interact and generally get to know each other. This has nothing to do with my love for animals, of course. Nothing at all. XP
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Post by fathomsbelow on Sept 16, 2009 18:33:41 GMT -5
True. Although I think I've thought of a way to deal with the losss of fishing. If the ships in the Kingdom that gave up fish then were given some sort of "blessing" by King Triton where they'd tend to almost always get favorable winds, avoid storms etc, the correspoinding boom in the shipping industry might make up for it. Maybe. That's what I choose to go with anyway. That makes sense. About the princess being a mermaid thing..I think that some people might have already known, since that fairly disturbing fanfic I won't mention other than this brought to my attention the fact that some people saw Ariel change back into a mermaid at Eric's "wedding". Maybe somewhere along the line the witnesses told other people and there were rumors..and somehow Eric managed to clear up the confusion? I've noticed that there's not alot of Ariel/Max moments too! I'll have to implement that into my fanfic somewhere. |
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