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Post by fridamoonbeam on Sept 6, 2010 22:08:27 GMT -5
For the beautiful mermaid queen that needs more props.
First topic of discussion with SPOILERS
Did anyone else think that her death was a little disappointing? I would have actually prefered she died trying to save Ariel, which would have made it in relation to the first movie more heart breaking, instead of the music box, imho at least
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Post by Zavi on Sept 7, 2010 11:05:52 GMT -5
Yes, yes, and yes again! The music box was necessary the plot, I suppose, but they should have left it with Athena trying to save Attina or at least one of her sisters. Getting killed just because you really wanted to save your music box (and not your children) just seemed silly to me. I'm not sure why that wasn't caught in storyboarding. The first ten minutes of TLM3 are beyond cute and I love Athena, but her death definitely started the film's downhill spiral. [/rant]
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Post by fridamoonbeam on Sept 7, 2010 15:55:49 GMT -5
I guess it could have been a nod to when Ariel saved her little bag when her and Flounder were being chased by the shark. It just kind of seemed silly in the context though. Triton could have gotten another music box for her (but dinglehoppers are special!), and it wasn't quiet *that* impulsive ihmo. It just seemed a little silly like you said. But yes, I love her and thought it was great how she loved all her girls equally you could see ^^
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Post by WickedElphie on Sept 7, 2010 17:35:48 GMT -5
What I liked is that while she did look a *lot* like Ariel there were those subtle differences in hairstyle, eyes, and shell/fin color that made it more believable. And yeah, the music box got her a nod for Too Dumb to Live on TVTropes.
And what makes it an even weirder choice is that they had that bit with her rescuing Attina already. They should have just cut to the music box falling over or something when the ship hit the rocks. It could still have had its significance without making Athena's actions seem so stupid.
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Post by Zavi on Sept 8, 2010 16:34:08 GMT -5
Right! It seems like such an obvious story choice to just keep it with Athena rescuing Attina and having her die for that reason, but they had to emphasize the music box and have her die for that. Silly logic, for sure, since they could easily have emphasized the music box in other ways. They *DID* later in the film by making it such a ginormous plot device. But, really? Getting in the way of a ship because your music box got stuck? *sigh* The story team may have been rushed, but even so it seems like a five-minute obvious fix.
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Post by WickedElphie on Sept 9, 2010 16:25:12 GMT -5
And yet, still one of the better Disney sequels.
But again, I do like how they developed Athena in her limited time before the death scene. I adore the lullaby. It was written perfectly for the tone that it sets.
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Post by faya27 on Sept 9, 2010 22:43:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I didn't like Disney's explanation of how Athena died. Come on! Nobody would be that stupid to die getting some stupid music box! I would have like it better if Athena died trying to save one of Ariel's sisters. Another thing that bugged me about the result of her death was that Triton decided to ban music. WTF? Athena was killed by human pirates! It should explain WHY Triton banned merfolk from going to the surface; NOT why he banned music. I can write the movie better than those Disney artists who have NO imagination whatsoever! How they got their jobs as animators is beyond me! They probably fooled Eisner and Iger with their fake resumes!
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Post by WickedElphie on Sept 10, 2010 2:05:05 GMT -5
The animators and the writers are two separate groups, though there is some interaction between the two. I have a feeling someone spotted the original problem which is why Attina getting stuck was thrown in, but it wasn't followed through on, hence why we also have the ridiculousness of Athena going back for an inanimate object.
But going back to what I said, I adore her lullaby, and how it fits the themes of the movie.
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Post by Coral on Sept 10, 2010 12:16:41 GMT -5
I need to watch it again. While I do have some problems with some of the plot points, overall I really enjoyed it. For once the animation was actually up to par! When the animation is good it's easier for me to forgive a plot that's lame in a few places.
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Post by fridamoonbeam on Sept 10, 2010 13:24:47 GMT -5
I also really liked Ariel's more quiet moments in the movie from not having her mom around. Its a nice change of pace from how constantly upbeat she's made out to be in most Disney princess things. Athena seemed like a sweet woman, I'd love to know more about her before she and Triton got married. Like if she was a princess arranged to marry him and what her feelings about that would have been lolz
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Post by Coral on Sept 10, 2010 16:39:29 GMT -5
Jodi, be careful saying things like that! That question is dangerous to mine and Jess's writing sanity!
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Post by faya27 on Oct 14, 2010 1:43:14 GMT -5
I also really liked Ariel's more quiet moments in the movie from not having her mom around. Its a nice change of pace from how constantly upbeat she's made out to be in most Disney princess things. Athena seemed like a sweet woman, I'd love to know more about her before she and Triton got married. Like if she was a princess arranged to marry him and what her feelings about that would have been lolz I like to know about their relationship, too. I like to picture that they were in an arranged marriage. At first they didn't like each other but became friends and finally, fell in love. Or something like that. (shrugs) |
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Post by Coral on Oct 14, 2010 16:14:13 GMT -5
That's an interesting theory. And it could work. Arranged marriages among royals was very common up until the last 100 years.
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Post by fridamoonbeam on Oct 14, 2010 22:08:06 GMT -5
I'm thinking she was definitely a noble girl, but not a princess per say. IDK, but to me it contradicts the movie and story when they had other princes and princesses in the TV show. I mean, then why keep calling Triton the king of the sea?  |
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Post by WickedElphie on Oct 15, 2010 10:28:20 GMT -5
For my money I thought there were several individual kingdoms doing their own thing and Triton ruled Atlantica while at the same time being the "High King" or "Overlord" or whatever over the sea as a whole. So the King of Olympia, for example, would be considered a sovereign ruler in his own right for the most part but if something big that affected the entire =ocean went down, Triton had final say on what to do.
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Post by Coral on Oct 15, 2010 23:06:00 GMT -5
That's what I always though too, Jess. As the son of Poseidon, Triton would be the big cheese and everyone else sort of reports to him and he solves disputes and such and has the ultimate power for banning someone.
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Post by faya27 on Sept 1, 2011 13:58:27 GMT -5
Yes, it seems to me that Triton is more like the President (or the big cheese) of the ocean while the other rulers are mayors/governors.
New question: If Athena were alive in the 1989 film, how would she react to Ariel's love for humans? Would she agree with Triton that humans are dangerous? Or would she help Ariel find a way to become a human-something that would not involve visiting a certain sea witch!
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Post by WickedElphie on Sept 1, 2011 17:59:57 GMT -5
I think she might be more sympathetic, but I do think she'd be concerned and have some reservations too. I think she'd be a 'cool Mom' in the sense of not sweating the small stuff and being open-minded and easy to confide in, but she definitely wouldn't let the girls get away with everything or put themselves in danger.
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Post by Zavi on Sept 12, 2011 6:38:01 GMT -5
Tough call since we didn't see a whole lot of her but I'm gonna agree with Jess here. Athena seems like a calmer balance to Triton's hot-headedness and she'd be able to pull Triton back before he let his temper get ahead of him. Now that's got me curious as to her relationship with Ariel as she got older.
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