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Post by Zavi on May 10, 2009 15:50:06 GMT -5
Can't have a TLM forum without some appreciation for our favorite villain, right? Let the discussion begin.
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Post by WickedElphie on May 10, 2009 16:11:10 GMT -5
I love Ursula. She's such a classic great villainess. I wish that we could have seen more of her history and how she ended up where she was. One of the things I do like about the musical is that it allows us to "meet" a kind of sexy Ursula who is still in her prime.
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Post by Coral on May 10, 2009 16:49:05 GMT -5
I love Musical!Ursula and the total sexy vamp they turned her into. She is one of the greatest Disney villains ever. She's not just an evil character. She actually has a plan.
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Post by WickedElphie on May 10, 2009 16:59:09 GMT -5
Right. She has goals and vendettas and all kinds of reasons for her actions.
Honestly part of me wishes we could have seen "Vanessa" in the musical as well and maybe even expanded on her hypnotizing Eric. Like maybe show explicitly that she worked mojo on the castle staff too and Eric could remain under her control through the sunset. She could order him to go after Ariel and he could fight to break free of the spell. *Struggling* "N-no. I w-wont hurt her."
Grr. Too many plotbunnies.
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Post by fridamoonbeam on May 11, 2009 0:09:00 GMT -5
Right. She has goals and vendettas and all kinds of reasons for her actions. Honestly part of me wishes we could have seen "Vanessa" in the musical as well and maybe even expanded on her hypnotizing Eric. Like maybe show explicitly that she worked mojo on the castle staff too and Eric could remain under her control through the sunset. She could order him to go after Ariel and he could fight to break free of the spell. *Struggling* "N-no. I w-wont hurt her." Grr. Too many plotbunnies. OMG, I have been saying the same thing for a long time! I still need to see the actual show but... a couple things: I still would prefer Vanessa rather than the contest. Just picture it; at the end of "If Only" could be Eric realizing that he DID in fact love Ariel, and that he should just forget about the other. Then Vanessa (Mere =) ) could show up singing, but like in the movie he wouldn't really go for it, and say something in the terms of "Yes, that's the voice but..... it doesn't sound the same, like it doesn't belong to her.." Then BAM she makes him a zombie! LOL Then start the scene with Ariel being woken up and basically thrown out, and then discovering that Eric has found the said voice. Which in that time could have Vanesa being a total diva (like Phantom's Carlotta ) to the staff, ordering them around (making it a really sassy cool number to extend Vanessa's origanal song) The rest would pretty much go like the movie, Ariel finds out goes to save him, her friends help, Sebastian tells her dad, blah blah blah. Oh, and just imagine what awesome effect they could have done for Vanessa to turn BACK into Ursula! Trap doors, smoke, lighting.... Uh, they need me as a consultant. lolz Oh, and I would have preffered it being a joint effort for taking Ursula down like in the movie. I know everyone thinks Eric acted alone, but no he didn't. He almost drowned from Flotsom and Jetsom, and was almost shout by Urlsula with the trident, until Ariel yanked her hair. So at that point he SHOULD have done something. lolz Anyway, done with that part of it. I LOVE Ursula, since you're right she's not just "bawahaha! I'm evil and I love it." She's BAD, yes, but you had the feeling she didn't get that way over night. Another thing I love about her is that she is big woman, but she is so confident and so thinks she's hot stuff- even when she's not Nessa! Even then, the great part about Nessa is that you can STILL get the picture of Ursula. BTW, a friend of mine (Klaske at B&S) is going to be writing a fanfic about if Eric married Ursula  |
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Post by DanTheMan on May 11, 2009 0:14:35 GMT -5
Ursula's a great villain, but sadly, that's pretty much it. Nothing really sets her apart from many other villains.
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Post by WickedElphie on May 11, 2009 0:48:24 GMT -5
I don't know about that. Her motives aren't that original, but most villain's motives are based in either obtaining, controlling, or destroying. She definitely has a distinct look, personality, and MO. YMMV of course.
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Post by Coral on May 11, 2009 14:48:59 GMT -5
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the contest was done instead of Vanessa to cut down on the cost of the show. A transformation like that would be terribly expensive, and it would be a recurring expense. The show already cost $15 million just to stage it initially. The only show I'm aware of that cost more was Young Frankenstein.
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Post by WickedElphie on May 11, 2009 15:21:23 GMT -5
Stupid practical monetary concerns. *Sigh.*
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Post by fridamoonbeam on May 11, 2009 15:29:12 GMT -5
Oh, man! That makes sense. ::pouts::
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Post by Coral on May 11, 2009 18:10:18 GMT -5
Yeah. Sometimes I just hate money!
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Post by Zavi on May 12, 2009 17:54:59 GMT -5
She's BAD, yes, but you had the feeling she didn't get that way over night. Dingdingdingding! That's why I love her so much. Of course, the big question is how she got that way in the first place. |
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Post by zoccarris on May 12, 2009 18:04:55 GMT -5
Honestly, I love Ursula so much. Most of my love comes from the fact that there's something about Vanessa that just entrances me to this day, that I can't figure out. Vanessa, is frankly, the one element of TLM that just completely mesmerizes me. But whatever.
Ursula herself is an excellent character because she's manifestly complicated. She takes a very active hand, even compared to the usual villains, and her motives, while not admirable, are quite understandable.
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Post by fridamoonbeam on May 12, 2009 23:27:30 GMT -5
I'm really trying to figure out just WHAT is was that made Ursula go bad. I got a pm from another author on FF.net asking what I thought, and I feel bad since I didn't reply. But I still don't exactaly know. Mostly my thinking is that Ursula was the first born to the sea-king but was upset that he didn't have a son first, so Ursula never really had that sort of love or sense of bonding from a parental figure. Maybe even what started out as simply being hurt by the arrangment, grew into jealously, distaste, then hated for her baby brother. Not because Triton was such an awful brother. This whole experience wouldn't un-noticed by Triton, and I believe that would be part of the reason he holds his daughters so dear.
Well, Vanessa is easily as beautiful as Ariel, honestly. Plus, I just love the parts with her in the movie, some of my favourites really. It's something that really sets her apart is her subtly. If you think about it from other players in TLM; Vanessa was a beautiful, brave girl whom had rescued the prince from his death, only to earn his love (of coarse she brain-raped poor Eric LOL) but from that POV, what's not to like about her? Even Grimm seemed to think she was pretty special.
Before her the "witches" in Disney movies, turned into hags or dragons. But Ursula takes two routes; one as a seemingly innocent lovely bride, and her other which would send Malificent running for the hills. XD
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Post by DanTheMan on May 13, 2009 1:16:23 GMT -5
Yeah. Sometimes I just hate money!  lol.. I do find it strange that a backstory hasn't really been revealed about her. Unless I missed it somewhere. |
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Post by Zavi on May 13, 2009 12:43:44 GMT -5
As much as I'd like to see an "Ursula Backstory" movie by Disney, I don't at the same time. They'd have to make it kid-friendly and "nobody's born evil" plotlines are hard to make G-rated.
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Post by WickedElphie on May 13, 2009 13:36:38 GMT -5
Gargoyles pulled it off and that was made by Disney. You'd be surprised what you can get away with if you try.
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Post by Coral on May 13, 2009 17:16:58 GMT -5
They could do it if they took their time. Which is something we all know the current incarnation of Disney won't do with Ursula.
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Post by fridamoonbeam on May 13, 2009 17:24:24 GMT -5
I bought my ticket for Wicked on Thursday! So excited.  Sorry, talking about Ursula made me think of it. LOL |
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Post by WickedElphie on May 13, 2009 17:33:14 GMT -5
Awesome! Do you know who's playing Elphie?
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lol..
Sorry, talking about Ursula made me think of it. LOL