|
|
Post by DanTheMan on Apr 15, 2009 1:14:09 GMT -5
I've always wondered if the people who created TLM ever actually factored in the TV series with the main movies at all. I mean, there's pretty much nothing from the TV series that is in any of the movies, more so the new ones, it's understandable for the first one. For example: Urchin was used a lot in the TV series, yet he doesn't appear at all in TLM II. There's other characters as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coral on Apr 15, 2009 12:44:46 GMT -5
I wonder that too. Why do they ignore the series timeline? I think it's a wonderful thing and really makes Atlantica come alive.
I've sort of come to the conclusion that they ignored the series timeline for TLM 3 because they probably think the people who would watch it have never seen the series and wouldn't know who Urchin is, or any of the other characters. Just goes to show that Disney once again isn't as in touch with the Mermaid fan base as they think they are.
|
|
|
|
Post by WickedElphie on Apr 15, 2009 14:25:05 GMT -5
They did the same thing with "King of Thieves" for Aladdin (although the animators did sneak Sadira and the king of the land with the smelly cheese among the wedding guests).
I have figured out a way to make a semi-consistent TLM timeline work out in my head...if you ignore the "ten years later" in Mermaid 3 and references to the sisters ages, and how old Ariel actually looks. Hey, I have to work with what I can get.
The main action of TLM3 took place when Ariel was 13. The beginning of "Whale of a Tale" takes place about 6 months after, thus after the 6 months skip within that episode Ariel is about 14. The events of the rest of season one are spaced out over that next year, so when "Save The Whale" rolls around Ariel is 15. The rest of season 2 and 3 then take place over the next year, making Ariel about 16 when the series ends.
Ta-dah!
|
|
|
|
Post by Coral on Apr 15, 2009 16:53:37 GMT -5
Awesome work! Makes complete sense to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by DanTheMan on Apr 16, 2009 1:04:55 GMT -5
Not bad Elphie, considering you didn't have much to work with. I wonder that too. Why do they ignore the series timeline? I think it's a wonderful thing and really makes Atlantica come alive. I've sort of come to the conclusion that they ignored the series timeline for TLM 3 because they probably think the people who would watch it have never seen the series and wouldn't know who Urchin is, or any of the other characters. Just goes to show that Disney once again isn't as in touch with the Mermaid fan base as they think they are. I was more so talking about TLM II, seeing as how even that movie was made long after the TV series ended. TLM III, was before the TV series, so I can sort of forgive that, however, not TLM II. Even if the story in TLM II is about Melody, you could've still introduced some chracters, or happenings. However, with the mention of Aladdin, that reminds me. A lot of Disney movie TV series are pretty much forgotten about when it comes to the movies. I have no idea why, seems kind of pointless to me. |
|
|
|
Post by WickedElphie on Apr 16, 2009 1:16:40 GMT -5
It's something you come across a lot in various fandoms. There are levels of canon.
For example when Buffy The Vampire Slayer was on the air, and a little after, there were spin-off novels and comics. Those aren't really considered canon. The Buffy Season 8 comics, which were conceived and partially written by Joss Whedon, BTVS's creator, are in a weird in-between palce where some fans consider them canon and some don't.
Whedon himself has said that while he considers season 8 canon right now, he'd be willing to drop the developments of the comics and go in a different direction if the oppurtunity came up to say, do a Buffy feature film .
It's a question of accesability. If they included the TLM series they'd have to include exposition as to who the less familiar characters are, and what their relationships are, etc. They probably didn't want to have to deal with that bagagge.
|
|
|
|
Post by DanTheMan on Apr 16, 2009 2:00:58 GMT -5
There's a difference in that comparision. The Buffy was turned into outside projects, such as comics. TLM TV series was on TV (which is in the same category with movies), and promoted as such, based on the success of the movie.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coral on Apr 16, 2009 8:25:16 GMT -5
There were also several lines of comic books that promoted the TV series universe. I have all of the Marvel ones, and the first Disney Comics 4-parter. Don't have the second one yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by WickedElphie on Apr 16, 2009 10:17:27 GMT -5
I wasn't saying it's an exact parallel. But those Buffy comics were also promoted based on the success of the original medium (the TV show). I'm just saying that the line of thinking is similar. I could go into Terminator or Star Wars instead, but my point is pretty much the same, so I won't.  |
|
|
|
Post by DanTheMan on Apr 18, 2009 1:01:08 GMT -5
I can't see it being the same, simply because the outlets are much different. More people are going to watch TV, then read a comic, or a book, etc...
|
|
|
|
Post by Coral on Apr 18, 2009 11:25:25 GMT -5
When you're talking about the average person, yes that's true. But solid-gone fans want every single thing to do with their obsession. Even comic books. I'm not really a comic book reader, but I want to have all the TLM comic books.
|
|
|
|
Post by DanTheMan on Apr 18, 2009 23:33:50 GMT -5
When you're talking about the average person, yes that's true. But solid-gone fans want every single thing to do with their obsession. Even comic books. I'm not really a comic book reader, but I want to have all the TLM comic books. But the average person is the majority, and that is what matters when it comes to this ;D  |
|
|
|
Post by WickedElphie on Apr 19, 2009 1:04:48 GMT -5
But the average person is the majority, and that is what matters when it comes to this ;D My point exactly. Disney wanted to cast as wide a net as possible and make the sequels understandable to people who may have only been familiar with the first film, and hadn't seen the series. Whether or not that was the right call is debatable, but that's likely that's where they were coming from. |
|
|
|
Post by DanTheMan on Apr 20, 2009 14:06:13 GMT -5
See, the thing is though, is that Disney promoted the TV series almost as much as they did the movie. So, just about all TLM fans saw the series, or at the very least, knew about it. And, it's not like it was just a 'blurb' on TLM timeline, it was on from 1992-1994. I think that's pretty good for a Disney cartoon TV series.
|
|
|
|
Post by WickedElphie on Apr 20, 2009 15:47:06 GMT -5
Hardcore fans or those of us who grew up with the movie are aware of the series, but children who grew up after the initial airings and promotion aren't. I have little cousins who range from 8-14 years old. Two of them are girls. They may have seen scattered episodes here and there, but it's not something they conciously include in their perception of "The Little Mermaid." If I asked them who, say Urchin was, I am 95% sure they would have no idea who I was talking about.
That's who they're targeting. Those second and third generation fans who might love the original TLM and maybe have seen 2, but who are by and large unfamiliar with the larger mythos.
|
|
|
|
Post by DanTheMan on Apr 21, 2009 0:54:16 GMT -5
Hardcore fans or those of us who grew up with the movie are aware of the series, but children who grew up after the initial airings and promotion aren't. I have little cousins who range from 8-14 years old. Two of them are girls. They may have seen scattered episodes here and there, but it's not something they conciously include in their perception of "The Little Mermaid." If I asked them who, say Urchin was, I am 95% sure they would have no idea who I was talking about. That's who they're targeting. Those second and third generation fans who might love the original TLM and maybe have seen 2, but who are by and large unfamiliar with the larger mythos. Which brings me to one of my other points, if that is the case, what was the point of making it? |
|
|
|
Post by WickedElphie on Apr 21, 2009 10:59:27 GMT -5
*Sings* Money makes the world go round/The world go round/Money makes the world go round/That clinking clanking sound
I don't deny that there may have been a legitimate desire to tell more of Ariel's story but, at the core Disney is a business that exists to turn a profit. And the best way to do that is to make a product that is accessible to as many people as possible.
For my money when TLM 3 came around they were far more invested in turning out a quality movie than back when they were churning out DTVS every couple of months, but they certainly weren't going to go out of their way to reference a 30 episode sixteen year-old TV series. Also IMO that is why they went with a comedy villainess. A preschooler might freak out at Ursula, but Marina and Morgana before her, not so much.
One interesting thing. "Atlantica" was a term that only appeared in the series, NOT the first film, but it is used in both sequels and the Kingdom Hearts games, likely because of convenience.
|
|
|
|
Post by DanTheMan on Apr 21, 2009 20:14:27 GMT -5
But did the TV series actually bring much revenue to Disney? I mean, certainly TLM was going to make money whether the TV series existed or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by WickedElphie on Apr 21, 2009 21:00:25 GMT -5
By their very nature television shows exist to make money. Companies pay to have their adds shown during commercial breaks. The more popular a show is i.,e. the better the ratings, the more those companies pay. The TLM TV series was commissioned based on the success of the movie in the hopes that the series would prove to be popular as well. Not to mention that episodes were both released on video and packaged in those Princess DVDs. So yes the TV series made Disney money.
My earlier point however was related to the lack of references to the TV series in later Mermaid media.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coral on Apr 21, 2009 22:13:44 GMT -5
There was also a whole line of toys and dolls that went with the TV series, including an Arista doll and the Clambakersfield twins.
I remember all of the toys that went with the series. A lot of my TLM stuff is from that era.
|
|
