The Writer's Discussion Thread

[Aquisha]

You know, I was thinking that so many of us are writers on this forum that maybe we needed a thread where we could share some of the quirks of writing these particular characters, what we run into while doing it, and what are some of our favorite parts of writing them.

I was just thinking of something today as I was doing a little work on "Triton's Court": I feel like as I get into other things (TV shows, movies, or books), random aspects of those get into what I write. Like recently, I started watching re-runs of The Office (which I absolutely adore) and I feel like the more I watch it, the more Ariel and Eric start to interact like Pam and Jim. Ridiculous, but true. And a few weeks ago, I was reading "Jane Eyre" and got inspiration to write a Jane-esque version of Ariel for "The Third Day".

So I guess my question for this post is what outside influences make it into your writing or do they ever make it in at all?

[WickedElphie]

Outside influences play a huge part in my writing. In BSS for example there are nods to everything from Shakespeare to Sailor Moon. If there's a thematic element or kind of conflict that engages me I always want to put my own spin on it. Plus I tend to like to write things I would want to read. So there's plenty of WAFF and TAFF, quirky humor, playing with dialogue, a villainess with strong emotional ties to the main character, etc. All things I enjoy in my fandoms.

[Zavi]

Ohh yes, outside influences creep in with a huge force in my writing too. The biggest offenders are Fitzgerald's "The Great Gatsby", Conrad's "Heart of Darkness", and bits and pieces of every setting I've ever been in or seen. Ideally I try to write pieces with both intense imagery and emotion, where the setting is permanently bound to plot and character. My favorite author plays a huge part in me getting that across. Setting/imagery is *everything* to me and it shows in the things I like to read/write. He also contributes to my love of sympathetic villains, too. They leak in as much as the spiritual undertones (what author/fandom I got that from, I have no idea).

I think that's a good thing to have a strong mix of outside influences, though. It's funny because as I read all of y'alls work, each writing style is completely its own. Like I could read an unfamiliar fic from each of you and I'd be able to pick out exactly who wrote it. Each style makes so much sense when I get to know all of you as people, what you like to read and what you like to do.

[Coral]

Zavi, the spiritual undertones (for both of us) is just a natural extension of our Christianity. I can't *not* write without my faith showing through. It's so much a part of who I am and if you take that away from me there's not a whole lot left.

I can't say that any particular fandom has affected me or how I write. I can point to several authors who have been big influences on my style. Susan May Warren, Judith Pella, Michael Phillips and Gilbert Morris are the big ones. The last three write historicals and do so with such richness and detail that it just jumps off the page and lives forever in my imagination.

Susie creates the *best* heroes!! They're wonderfully flawed and you can't help but want to love them through their pain. I use her character methods to create my characters because I end up with a rich, multi-layered character who's very real.

[fridamoonbeam]

Sorry, to interupt this nice flow you guys have going, but I need to vent

As a writer, I put a LOT of thought into characters that I write and want to get down exactaly it does that makes them tick. So naturally it pisses me off when the term "ZOMG, that's SO in character" is thrown around. It happens WAY too often and is usually said by someone who isn't that great of at analyzing, or they only analyze characters they like.

There IS a difference between keeping things IC, then just writing things for the sake of amusing yourself. If you're going to make an OC, then by all means go ahead but for sh*t sake, STOP butchering the poor charries

(btw, I realize how mundane this is to bring up, but I just get so annoyed by this)

[Coral]

I agree with you, Jodi. It's the writer's JOB to keep the characters "in character". Good writing is serious business.

[fridamoonbeam]

I'm so glad the members here feel the same way.

I mean, yeah, not all of our "Eric's" or "Ariel's" are the exact same (and who would want that? ) But we try our damnest to make sure it FITS with who they are in the movie, or give a good reason why they might have changed.

Sorry, i just feel like some people don't try at all, but they have a huge head that they just happen to know more than anyone else

[Aquisha]

Frida, I totally know what you mean! It really is a distraction from an otherwise well-written story if a character is just off for no reason (or not a good enough reason). There have been many times when I read something and just abruptly stop because I feel like what's happening doesn't have enough justification, and unfortunately, sometimes that means abandoning a potentially workable plot.

I agree with Coral; if we want our characters to be realistic, they have to react realistically to their circumstances. If they don't, they're not people, and if they're not people, they're not interesting!

For me, characterization is actually the most important as I read or write. Maybe it has to do with being a performer and always trying to understand a character's headspace but I could get lost in a good character, breaking them down and trying to understand what makes them tick. I think one of the best examples of that to me is The Vampire Lestat by Anne Rice. So amazing! When I read it, I seriously thought Lestat was a person I could just run into on the street. Rice fleshed her world and her characters so fully that you completely know them and even laugh at them as you watch them navigate through her layered plot. It's wonderful.

[fridamoonbeam]

Yes! I'm so glad you guys understand! Characterization IS the most important part.

Also *sighs* I need to vent REALLY badly.

I play Eric at a forum in the modern times. I've been trying really hard to think about he would be and what to do with him.

But the "Ariel" (lets call her fauxriel) there is THE worst I've seen yet! I'm not kidding about that either.

She's made her a stupid, shallow, empty headed, inconsiderate, country girl. cheerleader! And to make things worse, she's Gaston's personal fangirl. No matter what dumb, sexist, and mean things he says/does to other people. She NEVER speaks up or calls him on it!

The only decent posts are the ones she's ripped off of from Kelly (best Ariel ever).

Oh, and for as dumb as she is, she "conviently" smart when she needs to be, which is so sloppy considering how stupid she is.

Now, I picked up Eric (he would NOT like anything about her. He's too intelligent, sweet, and humble ), and began to write him, mostly as a silent protest (since after I first spoke up about how I thought the characterization for our girl was off. NO ONE listened to the things I had to say! They all were kissing the rp'ers butt.)

And I've lost some respect for another rping for cheering this on. Only since they always claim how important characterization is, but they throw it out the window if someone can be made into a Gastion fangirl.

Poor Jess, Kelly and Mare had to hear about this. But I just don't know how much more of this sh*t I can take!

[1luckyunicorn]

I'm pretty dang positive I know which forum you're speaking of, Frida. I lurk there now for certain reasons, but I do read the RP, and this Ariel? Is really terrible. I didn't realize she was ganking stuff from Kelly, but that's supremely sad. I thought about joining back when they were holding their first RP, but the characterization of certain characters really came across as being OOC (I mean, they had several chars acting like they came straight out of Gossip Girl or something), and that dissuaded me from joining. You’re one of a couple of people there who's actually doing a good job.

All I have to say about characterization is that if you're not going to play (or write) a canon character in character, then you might as wll just make up your own character. I understand that people have different interpretations of how canon characters behave, but you can only stray so far from what's been laid out in canon before you end up with a character who only shares the name and appearance of the canon char and nothing else.

It irks me as well when I bring this point up and people use "But it's my story/I'm not a serious writer! This is all just for fun!" excuse, or otherwise just brush it off. I see stuff like this almost constantly, especially in the fandoms I'm interested in. If you supposedly like the character so much, then shouldn't you stay true to them? For me, it's a bit of a challenge trying to keep everyone in character, even the ones I don’t like (because I'm not some sophmoric character basher), but it’s a fun one.

While we're on this topic, have you guys ever seen a poorly handled canon char? More specifically, the character basically has a character shield around them, so they can get away with anything, and they're almost constantly shown to be so awesome and wonderful and all that? I have a really hard time writing characters like that (or liking them for that matter). How do you guys handle them? Is it actually treading on canon if you do give real flaws of some sort?

[Coral]

You're nigh onto a saint, Jodi. A Gaston fan girl? Ariel would be right next to Belle in politely snubbing the man! Except Ariel would have her moments where she wouldn't be anywhere near as polite as Belle.

Eric in a modern sense is an interesting concept though. That would be fun, he'd definitely fall into the "artsy" category.

[fridamoonbeam]

Feb 26, 2010 11:26:58 GMT -5 @1luckyunicorn said:

I'm pretty dang positive I know which forum you're speaking of, Frida. I lurk there now for certain reasons, but I do read the RP, and this Ariel? Is really terrible. I didn't realize she was ganking stuff from Kelly, but that's supremely sad. I thought about joining back when they were holding their first RP, but the characterization of certain characters I thought was OOC (I mean, they had several of them acting like they came straight out of Gossip Girl or something), and that dissuaded me from joining. You’re one of the people there who's actually doing a good job.

All I have to say about characterization is that if you're not going to play (or write) a canon character in character, then you might as wll just make up your own character. I understand that people have different interpretations of canon characters behave, but you can stray so far from what's been laid out in canon before you end up with a character who only shares the name and appearance of the canon char and nothing else.

It irks me when I bring this point up and people use "But it's my story/I'm not a serious writer! This is all just for fun!" excuse, or otherwise just brush it off. I see stuff like this almost constantly, especially in the fandoms I'm interested in. If you supposedly like the character so much, then shouldn't stay true to them? For me, it's a bit of a challenge trying to keep everyone in character, even the ones I don’t like (because I'm not some sophmoric character basher), but it’s a fun one.

While we're on this topic, have you guys ever seen a poorly handled canon char? More specifically, the character basically has a character shield around them, so they can get away with anything, and they're almost constantly shown to be so awesome and wonderful and all that? I have a really hard time writing characters like that (or liking them for that matter). How do you guys handle them? Is it actually treading on canon if you do give real flaws of some sort?

Oh lord, Nicole. Please come to Vermont and marry me

Those are my EXACT feelings about it too. I'm so annoyed no one bothers to see my point (except some more diplomatic individuals who are also just wanted things to be peaceful) I mainly stay since I'm enjoying rping with a few of my really good friends on there. Also, another thing that annoys me about this rper is that ALL her characters manage to go for Gaston and she forces the characterization for it to happen so much.

I play Esmeralda too, but do I make her drool over Eric? NO! Cause I don't think she actaully would, and I'm writng HER feelings not my own

Plus, I just liked the idea of modernizing Eric. I'm trying to go for a Peter Parker/Simon (quiet, a bit of a science nerd who wants to be a surgeon for the navy, that also loves the water, music, and baseball) vibe for him and I think it works well for him, I think. Since I don't see him as a "popular" guy, or he only is based on his looks and money, and it bothers him. I'll spare you the full details for now

Rachel, you're right too! If he tried to take her dinglehopper and tell her it was dumb for women to want to explore (that is if he didn't try to mount her on the wall as a trophy ) then she'd fire back and put the dinglehopper to good use.

[1luckyunicorn]

LOL.

Yeah, they seem to do that quite a bit over there (tuning out anything that's not popular opinion). And good point about her characters being fixated on Gaston. Anatasia I could see being attracted to Gaston, but Ariel? The moment he opened his mouth, she would immediately be turned off.

Heh, I thought I was getting Peter Parker vibes from Eric. I really like your takes on him and Esmeralda, and the people playing Naveen and Quasimdo are quite good as well. I was kinda hoping someone would apply for Tiana, but I'm kinda scared that they'd somehow mess her up too.

So Ariel would put the dinglehopper to good use, huh? See, now I'm imagining Ariel either going right ahead and combing her hair with it... or trying to stab Gastion with the fork, lol.

Oops, I thought this was a general writing thread, didn't realize it was meant to be TLM-specific. Disregard my earlier question. I have yet to actually write any TLM stuff, though I will say that Ariel and co. will show up in a mass crossover I'm planning.

[fridamoonbeam]

Thank you again for you compliments, Nicole. It means a lot coming from you


Yeah, that REALLY ticks me off. Just because something isn't widely believed, doesn't mean it's wrong. A little over five hundred years ago most people thought the world was flat, even then it just shows they were not doing proper research either

*sighs* Not only fauxriel, and Anastasia but in the last rp she paired Megara with Gaston. That actually sucked for my friend who plays Hercules (who I'm actually really enjoying the implied Ho Yay we do with Eric and Herc xD) there since she REALLY wanted to pair them together. Granted when I was reading it then it was amusing however, I've done more in depth analysis of Meg, and once again I don't see why she would be intrested in him. It was made clear in Hercules, she likes sweet, humble, thoughtful, butt-kickers

Also, it made me mad that both the rpers for Gaston and Ariel want me to pair Eric with Jane, which I KNOW they only want because then the red haired moron who looks like my princess can be paired with Gaston. He can have her

LOL!! I actually have an iron clad rule anyway that Gaston is not to be paired with anyone fro TLM (except Ursula for amusing reasons, with her ending up wipping his butt). I never thought of him with any of my charries until I came across the SCARIEST photo-nip of my prince and him. It took me a full case of oven cleaner to get the image out of my brain. Sure, I forgot most of my math classes, but I don't regret it

OOh, I'd really like to see your interipation of a modern Eric. We all might tweak him here or there, (which is cool to read) but we'd all make sure it was still "Eric"

LOL, As for your earlier question, I kind of think they do that with Belle a lil' bit in BatB, and make her out to be right about a lot of things in the movie. Also, I can't stand Bella Swann (though, she's not as bad after reading fauxriel )

[Aquisha]

I think all of this just shows the difficulty in writing our favorite mermaid. Not that I'm defending the person you're talking about (clearly they're just using her for their own gains, and that's annoying), but when you're actually trying to get her right, Ariel's a tough character.

She's young and spirited, apt to rush into the things without thinking. This does not make her stupid or ditzy though. She is naive but there are times when she can be really mature and be the most level-headed person in the group. She's got a whole lot of contradictions going on and it's hard to even everything out. Something I always try to remember with Ariel is that she's got a sense of humor and a little bit of sass to her when she's in the right mood. She's not a "perfect princess", she has her moments of frustration or witty reparte, but it all has to be equal. If you do too much of the sweet/simple thing she looks dumb, if you do too much of the "realistic teen" thing she's too much like her sister Andrina or even Meg.

I'm just saying that getting Ariel right is tough and requires a lot of thought about what the situation is. Without taking the circumstances into consideration you can totally ruin her character.

[Coral]

Well said, Paige. And all of that may be why I find myself more comfortable writing Eric. I love Ariel dearly, but boy is she hard to write well!

[Zavi]

I actually find Eric far more difficult to write than Ariel. He requires more subtlety and when writing him you have to strike an emotional balance. There's a fine line between Eric being cold and Eric brooding too much when trying to write him. He's a bit of a moper, for sure, but getting that down in writing is tough to the nth degree, at least for me. I have less trouble with Ariel, although she's a tough character to balance too. I do enjoy writing that thirsty daredevil, especially when her plans backfire on her.

[fridamoonbeam]

Paige that was really well thought out, and I think you made some valid points too!

I guess what mostly makes me mad about this is that I'm considered The Little Mermaid expert on the forum, and I've brought up so many things over the past couple years about the layers that a lot of people ignore. So when I made some comments about what I felt was being over-looked for Ariel's character, I was just flat out ignored by people who claim to be my friends.

I actually agree with Mare. Eric was SO hard for me to tackle, and still is a little. Ariel is someone I always saw myself in so I could identify with some things as if I was going through it. It's the youngest of a big family thing I guess

[faya27]

I agree with Zavi. I love Eric, but he is hard to write. In my story, "Melody's Nanny," I'm trying to figure out how to write sad scenes for him without making him sound like Beast or Robert Phillip.
I want to write scenes where he would be having fights with melody and with Ariel but I don't know how to do that without ruining his character.

[fridamoonbeam]

My personal opinion for Eric if he was a single parent would be that he'd actually vere toward spoiling Melody like crazy as a way to try and compensate for not having a mom around. Plus, I kind of see him as a bit a work-aholic in an attemp to make their lives easier. I also feel like he wouldn't really know how to punish her, and would be more defensive of her.

I think it takes a lot for him to get mad, since for the most part he's VERY zen.

That's just my two cents anyway lolz